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Fibonacci in Films

Submitted by Gratefuldeadbolt on Fri, 2005-12-02 18:39. Synchronicity Discussion

Fibonacci in Films
" The Russian Sergie Eisenstein directed the classic silent film of 1925 The Battleship Potemkin (a DVD or video version of this 75 minute film is now available, both in PAL format). He divided the film up using golden section points to start important scenes in the film, measuring these by length on the celluloid film.
Jonathan Berger of Stanford University's Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics used this as an illustration of Fibonacci numbers in a lecture course.
Dénes Nagy, in a fascinating article entitled Golden Section(ism): From mathematics to the theory of art and musicology, Part 1 in Symmetry, Culture and Science, volume 7, number 4, 1996, pages 337-448 talks about whether we can percieve a golden section point in time without being initially aware of the whole time interval. He gives a reference to his own work on golden section perception in video art too (page 418 of the above article)." -quote

just when you thought you were the first to mess around with math and films!!! HAha. OH - Too bad!

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Jaydingo's picture

Fibonacci Theory = Patterns

Submitted by Jaydingo on Tue, 2007-11-27 12:06.

This theory is common & learned about by most first / second year music students. A friend of mine Carlos Bendfeldt, a classical guitarist/Julliard grad talks about this frequently. I relate to them in the form of time signatures & (musical) patterns.

"momma always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them."- Forrest Gump

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Fargo?

Submitted by J3L2404 on Sun, 2007-11-25 16:48.

Anything sync with Fargo? Seems like it would be a good movie to sync

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Dead Poet Society

Submitted by Karl Tune on Sat, 2007-11-24 09:57.

It is fascinating what math analysis of our world will reveal hidden in every day life. The way our world works can be boiled down to equations. I believe that science of math works.

Then again, there are many misplaced applications. I think that the golden ratio applied to music and movies is hog wash. The Fibonacci series of numbers may apply early on, but how do you assume your attention span on one subject more than 15 minutes? The Fibonacci series of numbers progresses like this: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34... where you take the previous two numbers added to get the next number. this is a golden ratio because the numbers added mirror the original series (what?). So as Robin Williams' character indicates to his students in "The Dead Poet Society", rip this introduction out and throw it away. It has nothing to do with the subjective beauty of synchronicity. If you enjoy waiting 34 minutes for the next exciting thing to happen in the movie, you might want to watch the 24 hour long movie of the empire state building standing in the sky. Such a movie existed.

Otherwise music and movies combined whould be like Phillip Glass' opera "Einstein on the Beach". Go ahead, look "Einstein on the Beach" up on youtube or myspace. I am sure it is there. Yes, the Scientific method of combining music and visual. I see it now. So easy, any robot coud do it! Look out! Robots are taking over synchronicity!

What is the average attention span? Find that time limit out and you will probably find that music and movies use that one number on a regular basis. That is probably why harmonizing of music and movies works so well.

In "The Dead Poet Society" students learn the freedom of expression and non-conformity. I hope that is what you learn here at the Synchronicity Arkive as well.

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We think differently Karl.

Submitted by baker breton on Tue, 2007-11-27 09:44.

We think differently Karl. I'm not sure what you have against the golden ratio (this ratio can only be approximated by the Fibonacci series)...

I can think of a number of sources that claim artists have inserted such ratios in their work, past and present. Whether or not it's true, it *is* worthy of being brought up here, certainly more interesting that another Slayer-Slasher Movie combo (not necessarily knocking that for others, but something that has become old to me), if only to educate people about this ratio. Here's one that I know of off the top of my head.

Bartok
http://www.davesabine.com/Music/Articles/NumberTheoryinMusicFibonacci/tabid/168/Default.aspx

I couldn't find the other reference I was thinking of... must run,

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Phi-nominal

Submitted by Karl Tune on Tue, 2007-11-27 21:35.

I think some of the information on the link is miss-applied.

"As well, if you consider that the recipricol of Phi (0.61803) is roughly equal to 2/3, then you'll find it uncanny how many pieces of music seem to climax approximately 2/3 through."

(like the 2nd act of 3 acts is the climax. Act two is just one of 3 acts in this case. 2 items are not progressing to 3 items to create the phi ratio. Two thirds of the acts are not climaxes. It is 1/3 being climaxes). This is a blatant misapplication of the golden ratio to a coincidence in linear time. You would be better off using a bell curve to demonstrate emotional energy in the three acts.

Sure, somebody may try to use the Fibonacci series in music and movies, just to say they did it. I just imagine it showing like a robot designed it. Too mechanical and stiff.

But I do agree with you. The prepaired mind recognizes an opportunity or relationship that is not always obvious to the untrained mind. You just have to try harder to convince me that the golden ratio applies to enjoyment and satisfaction. I think you are stretching the application in the case of music and movie success.

"I can solve the worlds problems with out even trying.
I have dozens of friends and the fun never ends...."

from Styx "Too Much Time on My Hands"

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R_Sammy's picture

Golden Ratio

Submitted by R_Sammy on Thu, 2007-11-22 18:07.

I wonder if this golden ratio balance exists within smaller subdivisions of these and other works. This also makes me want to look at the mathematical structure of Memento (which has a structure based on a spiral in time) and Aaronofsy's PI.

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R_Sammy's picture

Strange connection

Submitted by R_Sammy on Fri, 2007-11-23 09:51.

The facts: In Rainbows says it's title at it's golden ratio. The movie Pi talks about this very subject. According to a Puddleglum artice the number 10 has been insinuated by the band to have a connection with In Rainbows. Album length: ~42.5 min. This number plus 10 minutes: 52.5 min. Movie length ~85 min. 52.5/85=.6176=61.8% or the golden ratio! The music fits nicely with the film but I haven't figured out any good start points for a synch yet.

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Key's picture

Re

Submitted by Key on Thu, 2008-01-31 20:43.

I wondered if any of you guys had done anything with In Rainbows yet. I actually thought Tom Yorke was saying "syncing" at the 11 minute mark - 3 minutes into Nude before the lyrics were available. And of course the whole title could be easily twisted into a DSoTR WoOz allusion.

Another thing I brought up a while ago is that the sum of OK Computer and Kid A's playing times is exactly the same length as The Wizard of Oz. There was actually someone on here claiming that sync to be intentional with some anecdotal first or second hand knowledge.

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Rainbows In Vanilla Sky

Submitted by Leighton on Fri, 2008-02-01 10:37.

I tried it with Vanilla Sky, i think i did track 5 from the start. it began well but fell apart a bit.
i may go back to it some time in the future.

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Russian films

Submitted by Leighton on Tue, 2007-11-20 09:41.

I recently saw this film and a guy on imdb.com has suggested that DSOTM works for it.
He also suggested it for 'Man with a Movie Camera' [1929], another classic Russian film, and better then Battleship Potemkin in my opinion.

Also, on the new Radiohead album the albums title can be heard in the background of the song 'Reckoner' and starts precisely at the albums golden section!
The Golden Section, Golden Ratio, whatever you want to call it is appears at 1/1.618, or about 61.8% of a way through of a work of art.
In Rainbows is 42m 34s, or 2554 seconds long. 2554/1.618 is the 1578th or so second of the album, which is 2m49s into Reckoner, precisely when the strings come in with the album title.

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Battleship Potemkin

Submitted by Leighton on Tue, 2008-02-05 08:53.

This film was given away free with one of the newspapers so i will be trying this guys DSOTM idea and maybe some others - the films only about 75mins so i think i'll look for albums of the same length - some Sigur Ros perhaps.

Anyone got this film or any ideas?

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Fibonacci in Films

Submitted by Gratefuldeadbolt on Fri, 2005-12-02 18:53.

So start looking for a 75 min Fibonacci album and it might just fit!

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75? or 80?

Submitted by Gratefuldeadbolt on Sat, 2005-12-03 00:56.

Perhaps 75 could be 80 due to 5 min offset?

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