2001: Jupiter Space Station

I was actually finished, JayDingo.

You did good.

Don't mean to add here except in a playful manner. Was looking back through my posts and seeing if I've ever ranted in this manner before. Hey, guess how long I've been posting at the Synch Ark: 38 years and 5 weeks!
I wouldn't believe it myself if I didn't have proof.

http://www.synchronicityarkive.com/user/255/track?from=25

Apologies if that link doesn't work for others.

I did go off on DeV. about DSotR a bit once, and also, well, I think that was it for this board, or at least the current version. So perhaps I was just due. And I had a lot of caffeine today too.

I was planning to add more about that Strange Creek stuff but, eh, it doesn't seem fitting now.

I'll have to assume that one was for me. Yeah...it appears that Jaydingo is still in his straight play through phase of his synchronization oddyssey. Which isn't all together bad, I'd hate to sit around bitter 'cause I "topped" myself long ago. Something to look forward too I suppose....eh B?

"momma always had a way of explaining things so I could
understand them."- Forrest Gump

And one other thing, Jay. I love your clever comments back to me and all, but I'm actually shaking you in my mind... do something instead of just throwing back cleverness (even if they are in jest)! This is basically all I've ever talked to you through. It's like some kind of screen.
Wink back at you!

So you're saying it's not true? (which might be so). And it's not me, it's a group thing, JD.

baker b.

Thanks JD. I think I understand that lr is frustrated and he doesn't exactly know where to direct it, and I want to reinforce that we all have some degree of frustration. I certainly can identify. If Arkiver wants to update the site that's great but I don't expect any "improvements" if he doesn't want to take the time to do it. I would totally understand. Participation here is not dependent on how the site is set up, or at least there's a much larger picture to the problem.
Each item listed (faq, guidelines, rules, tips), well, that's up to you guys as well, and not just Mike. Each would have its own set of problems to tackle. Let's start at the beginning, with Dark Side of the Rainbow, even. JD, my Dark Side of the Rainbow may be similar to your Dark Side of the Rainbow but it's probably not the same. Stegokitty's DSotR is not my DSotR and perhaps not yours. And so on and so on. 2001-Echoes doesn't have quite that problem, but it's not as well known. That's just one synch, and the best known.

If you're going to remake and remodel, where do you start? It's nice to give me a "thanks", JD, but that's not really doing the job that may need to be done.

If you all don't like what's being done here then create your own web site, heck create your own forum. There's no crime in diversity. And we do have private inboxes to vent or discuss in general. And emails.

If lr or others wants to devise a faq I for one will be happy to critique. I've created a faq about a/v synching a long time ago, but it most likely needs to be updated.

Anything you can bring up -- just keep in mind that it's probably been discussed before. Members of the older group weren't and aren't dummies by any means. The main difference is that we didn't have YouTube in the early 2000s.

It's nice that you review people's synchroncities on a regular basis, JD. I'm sure other people appreciate your time and effort.

baker b.

The site (acidplanet)shows several views of my synchs, and even a couple of downloads, but no reviews here or there. Of course there is no obligation to rate or review, it would seem courteous.

I wonder why people are so hesitant to give a review? Any thoughts on that, or what we could do to encourage more participation? As someone who has put so much thought into the grading process, do you have any thought on what motivates people to do so?

I suppose it doesn't matter in the end, I will still do what I do, but one would think that people viewing a video on a site dedicated to posting and reviewing said videos would bother to give an opinion or at least acknowledge the work put into producing something.

bonus features

Typically I do not put alot of effort into giving detailed grading because then it would be too much like work. But I do like to give feedback about other peoples art work so they can judge the audiences response. Because I have experience so many synchs, I think I can roughly estimate where one stands amoung the crowd. Because this is entirely subjective grading, I don't expect people to agree with me. It really helps when a number of people review an idea. Baker once called for such a panel to review synchs, but I only want to watch ones that grab my interest, not ones I am force fed.

As far as other people not grading synchs....Maybe people do not understand enough about what we are doing? Maybe they do not care enough about what we are doing. Maybe they don't want to synthesize what they saw and make a judgement. Since enjoyment is subjective, anybody can rate synchs. But recognize that you cannot please all the people all the time.

Um, no I have not watched your synchs. I admire your efforts to disperse your ideas and am surprised you don't get alot of feedback from those who enjoy your work. I am a technophobe and that has always hindereed my ability to be more active in the community.

All I can say is have patience. People don't always have your ingredients. People also are eager to try their own ideas. I had a synch buddy when I first joined. We reveiwed a few of each others synchs.

"I have dozens of friends and the fun never ends...."

from Styx "Too Much Time on My Hands"

"Baker once called for such a panel to review synchs, but I only want to watch ones that grab my interest, not ones I am force fed."

I don't think this was me but I could be wrong. I recommended at one time, not too long ago, that grading your own synchs may be a fine idea, but to grade others could lead to problems. Are you watching a DVD of another person's synchronicity or setting the cue(s) up yourself? If the latter, then a 1/2 second off, or a different version of the DVD -- any # of problems -- could throw off a reviewer. If a DVD, are you watching, then, something that can't be set up yourself? How do you justify it as a synchronicity, then? Did you eat too much before sitting down and watching a synchronicity? Do you harbour any kind of resentment because, perhaps, the person whose synch you are watching didn't give your own, championed synch a glowing review? Or have your same set of philosophies about synching?

There's all types of problems that are involved with public reviews, which is why I like to keep any such reviews limited to emails. It's not considered risque, essentially, to review synchronicities you've obviously watched via DVD or YouTube or some digital equivalent, but maybe the possible ramifications, given all else that goes on here, should be at least considered at times.

We're staying on the surface, expecting answers, when we, as a group -- because no one really cares but *us* -- well, we haven't really decided on anything. It's thrilling and exciting and creative to have such variation, at least there was for me at the beginning, and then, slowly but surely, you desire firmer ground. A foundation. Again and again in the Podcasts we return to DSotR/2001-Echoes but, like I said, I don't see that as really a rock solid base either.

If we -- or you -- as a group -- want to keep on keeping on like you have been and not look at these larger issues I'm totally cool with that as well! It's sounds like lr is a bit frustrated, and I think that's a good thing. But we, or *you* ('coz I really don't feel like I'm a part of this group most of the time) need to stop complaining and do something yourself and take a look at these issues. Or else just lie in the bed you yourself made.

It doesn't really matter a hill o' beans to me. I'll listen and give opinions if that's what you want, but only if someone asks me. I'm defending Arkiver, whether he needs it or not or whether I'm perceiving something here that may or may not be present (I don't consider it an attack) because he's done so much lately, and as he's said he's only breaking about even with this Arkive. I'm looking forward, after this little vent, to reading his 2001-Echoes Podcast transcript. I look forward to more information about copyright issues. I look forward to seeing what you people come up with. More Podcasts from other members. I'm extremely glad to see that aspect developing. But, it's cliche I know, I think you also have to accept some things that may seem a little out of the box and not just poo poo all such things. I know one or two of you will say: that's not what I meant in criticizing this person or that person, and that may be true. But I'm just bringing up my perception -- not an attack, mind you, just a non-acceptance, perhaps just because the theory wasn't worded, even, in the prettiest manner.

And for Pete's sake do you think if we all sold our synchronicities on ebay or whatever that we could get away with it???

Think about that as well if you wish. It would be nice if we could act as a *group* instead of, oh, boo hoo, no one likes my synchs and no one gives a response. I'm chuckling as I write that. I'm guilty as well. The best conversations I've had with synchers lately have involved *no* mention of "when are you going to watch that tape I sent you 3 days ago". Long term, that kind of demanding won't work, believe me.

Make some friends and be happy with that if you wish. Do *you* believe in your synchronicities? Do you need the acclaim? We're a very small group. No one from the outside world is really listening to us. If so, even to a small degree, they're probably laughing, and not in a "with us" way this time. How are you going to change that (coz it's true)?

Ok, gotta sign off now.

A simple thanks to me or anyone else won't do the trick. Surprise me and create something tomorrow totally unique and different that hadn't been thought of before. The ride doesn't have to be over, just some remodeling seems to be needed. That's up to the group, not Mike by himself.

baker b.

Good points, all.

The comment "As someone who has put so much thought into the grading process, do you have any thought on what motivates people to do so?" was rather a reply to Karl's comments and a not so clever attempt to satisfy my own curiosity. His comments don't really lead me to believe that he watched my synch(s), but still leave that possibility open. I have seen the list of synchs you have graded and it is impressive.

Now to expand my thoughts on reviews and the lack of participation a bit...

Please note that I have reviewed many synchs on here, given creative suggestions and attempted on more than one occasion to foster positive changes. Still,

I have written some very detailed desciptions of some synchs I discovered in the past, along with detailed set-up instructions, compelling evidence and synch points with little response (much thanks to the folks who gave the handful of thoughtful comments/reviews I have gotten).

I have sent out free cds and dvds to folks interested in viewing my synchs (not many folks were interested in recieving these free synchs. Some recipients did post insightful reviews while some never even bothered to thank me for my time/trouble or post a review).

I have posted synchs online for free viewing/downloading. (early tabulations are showing a poor turnout at the polls). I suppose Jaydingo hit it on the head with the 'leading a horse to water' comment.

Now...look up at the navigation panel on the left. Navigating this site, the uninitiated is charged with the duty of figuring out what exactly it is all about. There is no 'about' page or a faq. Nothing encouraging participation. No guidelines, rules or tips. No history or statement of purpose. Could this be a contributing factor to this lack of interest?

I have to wonder how many members the arkive has -vs- how many actually lend anything of value to the matter at hand. Even ideas that could enhance the user experience or promote interaction between members receive little to no response.

Perhaps I just need to find a new playground.

bonus features

looney,

I think you're onto something about the difficulty of using the site... it's a mess right now, and there's no one to blame for that but me. Good intentions don't count either.

That includes the difficulty new people would have in posting, which was done to stop spamming and trolling and all that, but each hurdle someone new has to jump through means they're that much less likely to stop participating, or give up before they do participate...

If it was an easy answer, it'd be done already. actually it's not that it's a hard answer, it's that it's going to take some work, and I've been putting it off.

bottom line, I need to get on things a *lot* better than I have been.

peace,
--mj
arkiver

I think you're doing a *fine* job Arkiver, and I'm saying that because the whole game, to me, in reading loonie runes recent comments on the criticism of the site, is like a Chinese finger trap. I won't repeat my own comments, because I personally don't think that people give a hill o' beans what I say here anymore 'cept maybe two or three in part, but the only thing that bothers me, again this is may be just a personally percieved vice, is the commercial aspect, which I think puts off at least a certain group of people, if perhaps only the older participants. I'm not going to name any names but I think it's obvious what I'm talking about. "O" personally didn't bother me, because it's like avoiding the occasional dog poo on an otherwise nice walk on a Greenway where dogs are going to show up and do such things. In combination with the rather open talk, at times, about otherwise non-commercial trading of DVDs and YouTube videos, that's the main reason why I feel I can't participate here more, along with the fact that I've already done a lot for this field already with absolutely *no compensation whatsoever* -- oh, I did receive a Guitar World cap once for giving a link to them on my old site. Where has all this effort got me? Well, I think I have some respect for this from a couple of the older people who either do not participate any more or else only show up occasionally on this board to promote the rare, new find, essentially; and I've given lip service back to every one of these dudes. Two or three friends is all I can number here.
All this criticism has gone on before. Synchers have had synchs ignored before, and cried about it before. It's frustrating. God knows I know about frustration, much of which I can't talk about here. So I certainly sympathize but to me this is another item to put in the "nothing new here" category, per a comment from my own Podcast. It seems to be a misdirection of frustration to blame the Sync Ark (this may even apply to my one possible criticism above), and not understand that we're very, very fortunate to have this site as a gathering place. At least I feel this way. The Podcasts are *wonderful* resources. Arkiver has given enough time. It's up to you guys to help out. I would suggest to embrace the new and different and not just "cut down" (yeah, it could be construed as that to sensitive newcomers) ideas that you don't fully understand or grasp, perhaps because they're still only in sketchy form in part. Don't draw your lines so sharply. Do you want any development at all in the future?
baker b.

I was afraid my comments would be seen as crying, critisizm and blame. Well, sorry if that was the perception. I thought I was offering constructive critisizm, questioning the (perceived) apathy of the arkive's members and suggesting possible changes that could possibly increase active participation.

When I first visited the site I thought it was a just a repository for synchs. I really didn't consider the motivations behind their discovery or that there was really anything going on beyond people coming here to look up synchs to try. There was nothing telling me that I should come back and lend my thoughts on the synchs I tried or that I could post recipes here or ideas there, etc.

Arkiver does a great job moderating and implementing improvements to the site. He is always open to new ideas and welcomes suggestion. I admire these qualities and have said as much in the past. It is in that spirit that I offer my ideas and recommendations that could maybe affect positive changes to the way people view/review synchs.

As for the commercial aspect of the site...whatever pays the bills, man. The site is a bit difficult to view on my pocket pc, but some ads really don't bother me. I wish I had it in my budget to buy an Arkive t-shirt!

I'm curious about that last bit about cutting down new ideas. I don't quite get what you are referring to. Could you explain a bit further?

bonus features

"I'm curious about that last bit about cutting down new ideas. I don't quite get what you are referring to. Could you explain a bit further?"

Anything that lies outside the realm of individuals having synchronicities to share and expecting feedback.

If there is a synch I'm really jazzed about its second nature for me to write a review about it either here on the Synch Ark or which ever site its posted on. I've been basically living on the Stage6.com site keeping tabs on Stegokittys newest soon to be finished creation. The newby syncher known as YouLookLikeRain sends me alot of her synch recipes for a "review" of sorts. I often put my own projects on the backburner due to the fact that I get bogged down with other synchers requests for input on their newest synchs. I'm glad to do it & I'm flattered that someone thinks of my opinion so highly. Your right, it doesn't matter in the end, you should still do what you do as long as you enjoy it. As far as levels of participation go...you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him synch.

Whenever i try out a synch someones posted on here i always post my thoughts; i think its good for the creator and other people considering trying them out.

i also like hearing feedback when people have tried my synchs and usually put their comments on my website. People our a lot more interested in a synch if a third party has something to say about it.